First impressions

[Evil Taco]

#11506

Taking a head start since I’m not confident I’ll have enough time in April!

I’ve played a couple of hours across a couple of nights. Turns out there’s a section that would’ve fit for the club August last year!

Random thoughts:
* lots of funny animations, many seem to be off the critical path and are just jokes and small rewards for poking around
* I got overwhelmed trying to “hoover” every corner and try every combination, there’s just so much detail in the game
* Giving up hoovering and just going with the flow -> enjoyment++
* voice acting works!
* I don’t recall laughing out loud yet
* a bit like with Toonstruck, should make a bingo card of things chosen as targets of jokes in the 90s comedy games and which now in 2020s feel like “really?”
* the map of the U.S.A. with its fast food restaurants and all makes for a really fun game world
* the UI really, really sucks

Give me Monkey 1’s honest verb list + inventory on the screen or Toonstruck’s practically “look / use” system. Everything in between seems to be worse, and this verb cycling on the right click is _the worst_. Additionally while I can get things done, I still after a couple of hours don’t know what / how I need to click when I want to do something with the inventory. It’s surprisingly bad.

What dulls the humour of the game for me the most, I think is: even though this is the first time I’m (finally!) playing the game, I’ve been marinated for literal decades in the idea that Sam & Max is reaaally anarchistic and craaazy – it no longer has any chance to surprise me with its strengths. But let’s see the game to the end and see how I feel.

So far I’d say this is clearly the lowest-ranking LucasArts adventure I’ve played (the two first Monkeys, Loom, Grim Fandango and Full Throttle) and I (so far) like Toonstruck and Beneath a Steel Sky a lot more. And after all this relative negativity: the game is quite good, and I’m enjoying playing it very much! I’m happy we have it on the club so that I’m finally getting around to it. (Need to catch up with Fate of Atlantis …)

[dr_st]

#11507

>> the UI really, really sucks

>> So far I’d say this is clearly the lowest-ranking LucasArts adventure I’ve played

Oh, joy, and I was looking forward to playing this game. 😛

[butterburp]

#11508

To offer a counterpoint – this was actually my favorite Sierra/Lucas game! Sure the UI isn’t as nice as more modern adventures, but I didn’t know anything better when I first played it, and I find I can get used to it even now.

As for the humor, Sarah of “Pushing up Roses” describes it as dry/sarcastic, rather than LOL material. I would add “gross” on some of the jokes….not for animal lovers.

[Evil Taco]

#11509

A low ranking LucasArts game is still quite a good game on average!

Dry and sarcastic is fair.

[Mike]

#11513

Yeah, I think I agree that I like the two first Monkeys, Loom, Grim Fandango and Full Throttle all more than Sam & Max, but I really really really like those games and with the exception of Monkey Island 1, which is my favorite, I think the ranking for me would swap around a lot depending on my mood.

I really like Sam & Max and I also agree that I don’t like the verb system as much as what they do in those other games. Well, maybe not Grim’s control scheme.

[Evil Taco]

#11518

Learning the keyboard shortcuts made it a lot more palatable.

These past few days it’s really getting to the groove of figuring out a small step or a couple forwards each evening. Probably very much how it was designed.

[sanildefanso]

#11525

I only just started this one the other day, but it’ll actually be my second time to replay this one, so it’s clearly one I’m already inclined to like.

The new interface is a mixed bag, I think. I like the bigger field of vision a lot more, but it does feel like if you’re using the mouse everything takes more clicks in general. Clearly they would land on what to do when Full Throttle came around, that game gets its interface right.

This is one of my favs from Lucasarts, along with the first Monkey Island and Day of the Tentacle. I’m only a little ways in but I’m really looking forward to digging into it one more time.

[Evil Taco]

#11532

Literally every time I start the game I have no idea what to do, then I find out something new, then I progress frustratingly little, and then I end the session without any idea what to do.

Sounds bad – it kind of isn’t. It’s beginning to form this very curious, fascinating rhythm. Like I said previously – it really feels like this is how it was designed to play.

[sanildefanso]

#11538

I knocked out a few more locations yesterday, it’s still holding up for me. I feel like this one is pretty solvable; if it’s got moon logic, it is at least an internally-consistent and well-telegraphed logic.

[Evil Taco]

#11539

It really doesn’t feel fully well-telegraphed to me on my first playthrough. Or maybe I’m too sleepy when playing late in the evening and I miss some hints that are only handed out once in the dialog …

But again I really want to emphasize I’m enjoying my time with the game. Our 10-year old has started joining in on my play sessions and has had some great suggestions (I’m also let known that Max is cute).

I started mapping out the locations, rooms, objects and people on paper and found out something I didn’t try. I have no idea why it worked, maybe there was a hint but I forgot it. I have no idea what to do with the new item I received, again, maybe somebody mentioned the item before but I have just forgot it (and no character seemed interested in it now, so I don’t know..)

But at least pretty much every “now why did THAT work?!” moment is accompanied with a fun animation and art, which underlines the wackiness. No expense was spared and it feels entertaining and rewarding.

There _are_ also well-telegraphed moments where I’m able to connect the dots and one thing leads smoothly to another, but those are far fewer than in some of the adventure games that I played recently, including Beneath a Steel Sky and Toonstruck. But somehow being stuck and nothing making too much sense fits well with this game and its world.

[sanildefanso]

#11540

It’s very hard for me to approach this with fresh eyes, so I’m willing to concede that things that seem obvious to me are not going to be obvious to most people. So it goes replaying adventure games.

I think the biggest issue with this game visually is that it’s not always obvious you can go someplace. Often there are further sections of an area that aren’t altogether clear. I think this is mostly down to the new interface, which is less clear when something can be interacted with.

[Evil Taco]

#11541

If I’ve missed a place I could visit, that could explain so much!! Well, good to have ideas and go combing through all the places I’ve gotten to so far!

[Mike]

#11551

“I think the biggest issue with this game visually is that it’s not always obvious you can go someplace. ”

Yeah, I haven’t run into anything yet that I would consider moon logic. The only real criticism I have with the game other than the verb system so far is that I think there’s some pixel hunting and sometimes things blend in with the background a little too well. I love the game so there’s nothing on the scale of what I would consider a dealbreaker by any means, but it’s been my only real frustration with the game, which I don’t think is too bad in the grand scheme of things.

[sanildefanso]

#11552

I’m at about the halfway point now, and even though I’ve played this through at least twice I ended up having to use a walkthrough. It was entirely stuff I had missed or forgotten to pick up somewhere. Nothing has been too much to a howler yet, but I still wish I could make it through.

Really curious how this game would play to someone who wasn’t alive in the US during the mid-90s. Does anyone even get the references to Stuckey’s anymore? They were ubiquitous for decades, but in the intervening years since this game came out they have gone virtually extinct. I was thinking of this because there’s a specific reference that’s important to solving a puzzle in the game, that I think might go over people’s heads.

*edit* I misspoke; there are apparently still 65 Stuckey’s locations in the US still. They are not very common around the Midwest anymore so maybe that’s what I thought they were gone.

[Evil Taco]

#11562

“I think the biggest issue with this game visually is that it’s not always obvious you can go someplace.”

THAT WAS IT

good grief

[Evil Taco]

#11563

Ok, now I’ve laughed out real loud! [x]

[Evil Taco]

#11565

Aaaaand beaten!

I’m thinking it’s indeed not so much that the puzzles aren’t well-telegraphed, but there’s a few Backwards Puzzles. It’s one of Ron Gilbert’s “Why Adventure Games Suck” anti-patterns: https://grumpygamer.com/why_adventure_games_suck/

I solved at least one long puzzle chain without knowing why I was doing it, and at the end I had no idea what to do with the end result. Then after getting a hint (thanks!), I found out I missed half of a room because it was not obvious there was an edge to walk to, I found the _beginning_ of the puzzle.

If I had done things in a different order, the whole adventure probably would have flowed a lot better. I pretty much had a great time from that point onwards.

[sanildefanso]

#11566

I just finished it too. The final puzzle sequence is pretty fun in how it all works out. I even managed to do it without a walkthrough!

The times I got stuck it was almost totally down to not realizing something in the background was something I could interact with. I’d blame the UI, but I’ve beaten this game a couple times before so I think it’s just a me problem.

[jan0sch]

#11568

I liked it back in the day and replayed it some time ago so I’ll skip it for April (and continue my Betrayal at Krondor from December 😉 ).

During the replay I also noticed that things were better for me because my english was better. In some places I also needed to take a peek into a walkthrough because I felt kinda lost.

But quite a nice game. Not Monkey Island and certainly not Indy but I had fun. 🙂

[Evil Taco]

#11593

The “aftertaste” of this game is really good, it’s kind of funny I was a little bit mixed or sweet-and-sour on it towards the beginning of this thread, and now I’m thinking very highly of it and also pumped to play more adventure games. Some of it is also from reading and listening to history of the game, about Steve Purcell and his story before and after, hearing more opinions about the game and its setting…

For example people from the U.S. talking about what all these roadside attractions mean and how they are also a thing of time and place and the humour regarding them was something that no longer applies. I think that’s pretty cool, it may mean the humour doesn’t hit as well or easily now or outside of the U.S., but the game’s setting is definitely not generic!

Basically I’m getting all this extra context for the game and it’s very much enhancing the whole experience of playing this game.

[sanildefanso]

#11601

Honestly, I’m not sure the setting is all that recognizable in a first-hand kind of way, but the big tropes of goofy roadside attractions are still very much in popular culture. It does improve the kitchy flavor of this game though, making its vibe even stronger.

I played through most of the Lucasarts games several years ago, and Sam & Max was one of my three favorites, maybe even as high as second to only the original Monkey Island. Just a great game, and it has inspired me to jump back in to other adventure games for the time being.

[dr_st]

#11610

I was going to start tomorrow, but a few days ago I randomly started playing Doom64. About halfway through, I’d like to finish it, and then take a break and play Sam&Max. 🙂

[Eulisker]

#11622

I will put this on my steam deck and play through it that way. Looking forward to that very much. I played the game close to when it came out (another game from the bestseller games series of magazines) but don’t think I played all the way through it since then.
I have never been to the US so my only point of reference to road side attractions is me seeing „The Wizard“ recently. The dinosaur on the box art reminded me of that stupid movie.

[Dreamkid]

#11635

I played through the game yesterday (didn’t expect to beat it in one sitting although I had played through it at least twice before). Parts seemed as if they could possibly be moon-logicy or obtuse, but I already knew what to do. I never realized how funny this game is. It seemed like a pretty solid adventure game although it might not be to everyone’s taste (it would be ironic for anyone who doesn’t mind the Sierra interface to be bothered by this one :p) It’s fun to try to guess the states for each location on the map.

[dr_st]

#11659

>> Parts seemed as if they could possibly be moon-logicy or obtuse

That’s my impression about some parts as well. It seems many LucasArts point-n-click games have a few puzzles which steer away from the usual mechanics. Not sure I would ever figure these out without hints, as I would not necessarily think that I could do that.

(not being specific here to avoid spoilers)

[Dreamkid]

#11669

Yeah, I probably would have been stuck for awhile had I not already been familiar with the game. I used a hint book when I first played as a kid.

[TigerQuoll]

#11670

This game is neither here nor there for me. It’s sort of “just another Lucasarts game” – nothing really stands out to elevate it.

I played it probably 15 years ago, and I only remember snatches of moments. Not nearly enough to help me solve any puzzles. Other adventure games I played at the time have stuck in my memory more.

Maybe I’m glossing over the story and I’ve missed something, but I’ve just freed Bruno and Trixie and it feels weird that there’s more game. Wasn’t that the goal from the beginning? And now Sam and Max are just… doing more stuff… because reasons?

[Tijn]

#11671

“Maybe I’m glossing over the story and I’ve missed something, but I’ve just freed Bruno and Trixie and it feels weird that there’s more game. Wasn’t that the goal from the beginning? And now Sam and Max are just… doing more stuff… because reasons?”

Why Sam & Max are set to get into the Yeti convention isn’t entirely clear to me, but once inside the elder Yeti explains they’re a dying species and Sam (Max less so :P) decides to help them out, rather than returning Bruno to the circus.

[Eulisker]

#11672

For me the game seemed always more like a loosely connected joke delivery mechanism and less like a (sort of) coherent story like Day of the Tentacle. I liked it very much back in the day.

On a personal note. ScummVM and Sam & Max is setup on my steam deck. Now all that is missing is some time….

[Evil Taco]

#11673

Well if you combine the crank and the paradimensional jellybean jar, you have a device that can create time for you. But you have to realize that the corridor next to the photocopier room actually _continues_ to the left even though it doesn’t necessarily look like the screen would scroll. But that’s where you’ll need to use the resulting item so you can access the fire escape, get away from you boss and TADA you have time.

[butterburp]

#11675

You can also use Short’s Lemon in Muppet Theory to prove that Kermit the Frog is a dork. (Hint: think champions, parallelograms and gas) Current conjecture is that Donald Duck is powdery, but I haven’t smurfed up a proof of that yet.

[sanildefanso]

#11676

On the Lucasarts moon-logic scale, I would say Sam and Max rates pretty low overall, especially compared to some of the later games they made like Grim Fandango. (I know, I know. It’s a great story with terrible puzzles.) I actually think it’s better than most of the Monkey Island games besides the first one too.

But this genre is very strange about what is and isn’t a difficult puzzle for people. I’d be really interested to poll people in detail and see where they were tripped up, and where things were easy for them.

[red.hexapus]

#11677

Without spoiling anything, for me what gave me the most trouble were not the puzzles themselves but:
a) not seeing an exit to somewhere (happened twice)
b) missing a crucial item I could pick (also twice), even though I knew what needed to be done

I wish these games had a highlight button to show all exits/interactable items, instead of pixel hunting.

[jan0sch]

#11678

I second that. Not seeing where you can go or overlooking an item would also be my top issues.

[butterburp]

#11679

The hardest puzzles for me were the ones with a time limit. Not just because of the time limit, but also it wasn’t always obvious to me what to do in the first place.

[Tijn]

#11680

> Well if you combine the crank and the paradimensional jellybean jar, you have a device that can create time for you. But you have to realize that the corridor next to the photocopier room actually _continues_ to the left even though it doesn’t necessarily look like the screen would scroll. But that’s where you’ll need to use the resulting item so you can access the fire escape, get away from you boss and TADA you have time.

Wait… what? Where in the game is this?? I played through the whole of Hit The Road over the Easter weekend, but don’t remember this at all!

[Mr Creosote]

#11682

My first impressions back in early ’94: wow! All those animations, all those gags which serve absolutely no purpose for the solution, but which they’ve put in anyway!

But then, it cannot keep up with that early promise. And I realized this was the second Lucas game in a row which was just VERY American in its themes, its gags, even its puzzles…

Don’t get me wrong, this was a very fun time. But I really feel with Day of the Tentacle and this one, they lost this fine balance of broad international appeal. After all, their previous games had been huge sellers in Europe. Weird move.

[Eulisker]

#11693

It took me ages to find the money in the beginning but apart from that I feel like I am progressing at a good pace. The puzzles did not seem too out there so far. I did play the game 20 years ago so I might have some residual puzzle solutions swirling around in my brain but nothing seemed too familiar yet. I think the game is consistently funny and absurd. I love it so far.

Out of curiosity and without spoiling anything but the screen it is on but where did you miss the exit @Evil Taco?

[Evil Taco]

#11706

Tijn, I was referring to Eulisker’s real life situation!

Eulisker, I indeed don’t think it’s a spoiler to say I didn’t realize the screen with the magnets would scroll.

[dr_st]

#11707

>> I didn’t realize the screen with the magnets would scroll.

It stumped me at first, but once I figured out how the magnets were working, it seemed that there must be a third magnet somewhere.

BTW, does anyone recognize the reference? (click on the image to enlarge) 🤭

[Evil Taco]

#11711

dr_st good point, I did _not_ realize how the magnets worked before I found that there was more to that room than initially seemed. That would have helped a lot.

The stuff I tried was way more moon-logicy than the actual solution. Should have taken notes and made my own TRULY bizarro Sam & Max fan game …

[DJ_HiP]

#11713

“just VERY American in its themes, its gags, even its puzzles…”

I’ve been trying to get this into words myself and I think you’ve nailed it.

I finished the game, with the help of walkthroughs.

But, while I’m not an expert adventure gamer, I think this was the first were (even though I am a native English speaker) I felt everything was a foreign language to me. The gags, the names of items, the logic paths.

I love the artwork and early 3D renders in game, but compared to DOTT I just can’t find the appeal.