watchful
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watchfulParticipantFirst puzzle after trying “Team” has proven more challenging than I remember. Feels like some vestiges of other paths make things even harder than usual. And while the randomization is a nice touch, I find the extra hot-spots and inventory a bit frustrating.
Ah well, it’s some variety at least. Maybe I’ll give “Wits” or “Fists” a try if I can get through “Teams” fast enough. The story and production quality is just so good.
watchfulParticipantMoney Island was just before my gaming era started and I also love the special editions. The pixel art is nice too, yet a bit harder to see small items. So given the choice I prefer high resolution alternatives, at least as long as they have roughly the same feel.
watchfulParticipantThanks for the review. Interesting to see high praise for the Lost Crusade adventure too, as often I’ve heard it called short and rushed.
I picked up Fate in a bundle solely because of a love for the movies, and was very surprised at the quality of all the games on the disks: FoA, Day of Tentacle, Sam & Max, and even Rebel Assault (for the video if nothing else).
watchfulParticipantInteresting that the GOG version uses ScummVM instead of an official and native SCUMM port.
Steam’s version has graphics smoothing, which can be turned off with Alt+S, and my guess is it doesn’t have any bugs in its IQ points. Then again ScummVM apparently has smoother scrolling and allows one to use better quality assets like Amiga music.
I’m curious to retry the DOS version, such as via ExoDOS, to see how it compares.
watchfulParticipantThanks for the heads up. I just tried on a Vive and it’s surprisingly good for a fan effort. My only critique is that the teleporting didn’t work for me and some of the 3D model assets glitched (chandelier in ceiling, white barrel rings) or looked too different (smooth green barrels).
Despite the nausea-inducing sliding around, it was a blast to do the aiming with my physical head and hands. The increased difficulty and realism was worth the time lost getting my Vive working again, after a few months on the shelf. Time permitting I’d like to try my Quest 2 as well.
watchfulParticipantBack in the day I got a big-box copy of Spear of Destiny and enjoyed it, though a bit less than Wolf3D. It’s levels felt too much like mazes.
I’m actually replaying SoD now too, and up to level 15 it’s not as bad as I remember. Or perhaps ECWolf’s auto-map just makes it significantly easier to navigate. Still, later levels seem to lack ammo considering the number of enemies. They appear to force the player to kite and funnel the enemies to make every shot count.
Looking back SoD does feel a lot like an expansion, since it offers nothing but art swaps and some new maps.
watchfulParticipantMac emulators were too hard to get working. And looks like enemies only face forward. So it’s a hard no from me
watchfulParticipantFrom what I recall, violence in media was still controversial, at least in the US. This was especially the case around things that appeal to children like games and TV. So no surprise to see the gore called out in these old reviews.
It’s interesting how all those I’ve read acknowledge the breakthrough in sound and graphics, even if they had misgivings about the themes. Ultima Underworld may have had more detail but I recall its pace and UI was too much for a certain impatient adolescent.
Regardless, are contemporary and positive reviews really that rare?
These are some scans that PopularCultureGaming.com found in PC Games from 1992:
page 2.Here is a medium post with a lot of references to the contemporary reception, though sadly without links to them.
EDIT: OK, I found the CGW #98 reference on archive.org. It’s quite positive too.
watchfulParticipantFor those thinking of giving up, please consider trying ECWolf first. It’s modest quality-of-life improvements really made it much more fun for my older self to keep going.
Specifically, ECWolf has an auto-map lined with the wall textures, yet it can be overlaid and auto-rotate. It’s sort of halfway between Doom and ROTT’s auto-map.
ECWolf also offers modern strafing and locking the Y-axis for a very familiar WASD+mouse configuration.
watchfulParticipantIs this … spam?
watchfulParticipantFor nostalgia reasons I’ve been forcing myself to use just arrows and no strafing (and PC speaker!)But soon I plan to use a modern port or patches to get WASD+mouse.
watchfulParticipantThis isn’t just a modern demake, looks like it can also run on ancient hardware:
> The engine has also been modified so that it can be run on 8088 based CPUs, allowing it to be run on a wide variety of old PC hardware.
Considering the heritage of the game, I think it’s kind of fitting to get it going in only 16 colors; even if not technically EGA.
watchfulParticipantCycles was the problem! Increasing it to 10K was much smoother. Much thanks @Tijn
watchfulParticipantIt is a shame Exo is including recent releases. I understand their goal of archival is noble. Yet making new releases playable so soon does undercut the financial incentive for much of the market.
IMO it would be ideal if they would just keep private archives of newer games, at least until reaching some threshold. Perhaps waiting 10 years before including them wouldn’t be such a gut punch to creators.
Or even including links with the games on where folks can support the creators today. If they’re afraid of benefiting far-removed corporate owners, then perhaps they could even link to donate to — or buy newer works of — the original creators.
watchfulParticipantThere is DOSEmu as well, though I haven’t tried it in a while.
watchfulParticipantThanks for the reminder. I want to revisit and just cannot bring myself to play the PS1 version. This looks like how it was meant to be played. Perhaps it’ll even live up to the version shown in “Hackers” (1995)!
watchfulParticipantCorridor 7!
watchfulParticipantI hope to try all the versions and a few ports. The Mac version also had higher resolution graphics which are interesting. There are a few projects that backport those graphics into ECWolf for folks who are curious but don’t want to run on an old Mac or Mac emulator.
BTW, while I love the art, Spear of Destiny maps felt even more maze-like and unfair than the original Wolf3D.
EDIT: OK cannot do MacenWolf, no matter how faithful to the Mac it is. Enemies always appear to be running forward, even idle or running perpendicular. Shame because the graphics are a nice step up, if not as nostalgic for us plebs from DOS. ECWolf is *very* nice though. Feels like the way to play for folks who want modern strafing and higher resolutions, or its nice map updates.
watchfulParticipantUS release of the game does allow remapping keys. DOSBox allows remapping and DOSBox-X makes that even easier.
watchfulParticipantI would enjoy an excuse to neglect my backlog to play Quarantine (1994) again. It was a curious use of a Doom-like engine with vehicles. They even made a sequel. Though at the time I recall really wishing they had gone 3D, or at least added slopes.
watchfulParticipantOpenJazz had some bugs for me: could not save, load only worked from main menu, some jump pads looked like small black trees, and some missing tiles far below the level. Physics also seem a bit different, though close considering it’s not a source or reversed port.
Hard to go back to DOS engine though, view-port feels way too small.
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watchfulParticipantGlad to hear someone else finished it, and without quick saves no less!
Better than Doom single player IMO, but that’s because I care more about story than weapon or enemy variety.
Hard agree on the objective systems. It works pretty well, especially for the era. Supposedly a lot of the logic is elevator based triggers because they programmed those early.
BTW the mines were great against melee enemies, you can kind of roll the thermal detonators. I do wish enemies used and dropped non-blaster ammo. Often felt like I had to use the trooper rifle to save other ammo for bosses or bigger groups.
watchfulParticipantThanks for sharing!
DF was special for me as well, though I came to the series earlier. Getting it on CD for Xmas was a treat as I loved and had modded Doom. Yet I yearned for a shooter with story, cinematics, and levels that felt real and lived in — unlike the very abstract levels of Doom.
Puzzles and large levels though were too much for my impatient teen years, so I recall skipping or cheating through the latter half.
Replaying in the modern era, especially with The Force Engine and even DREAMM, has been great fun.
JK too was special to me. I was caught in the 3D hype and longed for 3D star wars FPS. So much so that in 1997 I decided to take my experimenting with 3D modeling and Quake in a new direction, and made a simple animated Jawa. Soon thereafter I discovered the Star Wars Quake project. It was a joy to make my own interpretation of SW assets like stormtroopers, smugglers, jedi, etc. The project even continued after JK came out. After all we had mesh animation (not segmented skeletal)! Ultimately it fizzled out a few years later, not long after releasing only a multiplayer beta. Despite some regrets around all the time spent, I did still learn a lot and enjoy much of it.
Anyway, the DF+JK series is good fun and certainly worth at least trying them all.
watchfulParticipantTried it a few months ago, and I’d agree it’s not as interesting. The environments are so spartan and there are some stylistic quirks like medpack proportions that make it hard to enjoy.
That said, the animated cutscenes and music were nice, though not using the dynamic iMuse system that Dark Forces had.
watchfulParticipantThanks for suggesting this!
This provides some more modern defaults like WASD controls and an easier way to swap out the sound font for better music. Overall it feels snappier than DOSBox, though lacks save states of some forks like DOSBox-X.
Anyway, I still prefer The Force Engine for its many QoL improvements and the (albeit distant) possibility of multiplayer someday in the future.
watchfulParticipantShould this thread get marked ‘done’? Maybe moved to accepted suggestions?
watchfulParticipantWith TheForceEngine you can rebind the keys. Or even with DOSbox-X.
watchfulParticipantAnother tip is to open the map. Even without a headlamp or goggles one can navigate once you know the shape of the main areas.
watchfulParticipantPlaying back in the 90s I recall it was both great to have a coherent story (and Star Wars) yet frustrating puzzles. As an adult it’s mostly better than I remember, probably because of more puzzle experience and getting over my everything-must-be-fully-3D mentality.
watchfulParticipantJanuary 7, 2023 at 10:28 pm in reply to: TheForceEngine is a great, albeit non-DOS, way to play #7043TFE now has a perspective correct (GPU) renderer. With latest releases just pick the ‘modern’ option on first run, or go into the video settings.
watchfulParticipantHave a look at the “Game Suggestions” forum. More folks seem to browse there than this general-DOS forum
watchfulParticipantAlso enjoyed this game, though had to use a walkthrough back in the day as it’s got some serious moon logic!
Still, the art and sci-fi was worth the pain for me. Tank controls too were quite annoying. At every camera change I yearned for click-where-you-want-to-go mouse control.
watchfulParticipantActually I found the areas so … linear it was one of the few adventure games I didn’t feel the need for a map.
watchfulParticipantSeeing LE back in the day I thought the art was kind of lazy, yet playing many years later I’ve flipped. Now I think the graphics were actually really clever, if experimental. They basically painted over filmed actors and then had to align it to the rendered backgrounds.
If you can accept the style it may grow on you.
watchfulParticipantPlay the first few encounters. IIRC after about 15 minutes you should have a feel for it, at least mechanically.
As for the story and visuals, try a Let’s Play with commentary. Then you can experience it and also hear how someone reacts and thinks through it.
watchfulParticipantAccording to hosts of the “Dev Game Club” podcast there is tendency to make games too difficult the more devs play it, i.e. the longer it’s developed. Apparently the devs and QA just become too familiar with it and lose objectivity.
watchfulParticipantOne quick, second impression: it’s nice to have the repeated clicking to queue construction of units–even to infinity. I think Starcraft was the first RTS I noticed with that feature.
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watchfulParticipantWould love to play this game together too. There is also The Force Engine which is a reverse engineered fan port for high resolution and modern systems. It’s likely to reach v1.0 sometime this year, but is already playable.
DOSBox-X’s save states can help with the original DF, at least as a kind of mid-mission quick-save.
watchfulParticipant@Kazashi MachineGames did some work on the Quake remaster and also the Wolfenstein reboots (New Order, Old Blood, New Colosuss). And their wolf reboots had similar distorted metal riffs as Quake’s menu audio–it’s so close in my mind I thought they were just reusing them unchanged.
watchfulParticipant@Pix Malice! Yes!!! It was on the shelf when I worked at Babbage’s but I only actually got a copy and played a few years ago. I even narrated the playthrough for my podcast. It had an actual plot, characters, cut-scenes, some quirky weapons and fun equipment like a parachute.
Anyway, my favorite mod has to be Star Wars Quake because of the years I spent helping make it. Though it wasn’t much to see until we switched to Quake 2. Still there was an unaffiliated CTF mod for Q1 that was Star Wars themed and quite fun too.
QuakeRally is my other favorite mod. Honorable mentions to AirQuake and Team Fortress.
watchfulParticipantMy first Quake experience was QTest, though only solo. It was still impressive to someone who was into modding and dreaming of more realistic gaming experiences. The true 3D on a PC was impressive, especially without Playstation’s warping problems.
Also agree the campaign is very weak, yet I did enjoy the eerie NIN soundtrack. Seems the levels and story were such a jumble with no clear vision. And all that despite claims it was based on years of DnD and brainstorming. (First mention being an easter egg in a Keen game.)
Playing multi-player on the local ISP’s server was fun, more so once we got it running in the school computer lab. Modding too was big with Quake 1, and we used to change the gravity, and try mods like AirQuake and QuakeRally. The QuakeC tech was very flexible, more so than Quake 2, at least until both engines had their full source released.
watchfulParticipant@Kazashi, what TC were you involved with?
I spent some years working on Star Wars Quake (“The Call of the Force”)!
watchfulParticipantWhat Quake ports/editions should we use to connect as clients?
I tried DarkSpaces and QuakeSpasm a few times but only got “Trying…”, though maybe the server wasn’t running?
watchfulParticipantDOSBox-X worked well enough for me last night. It does take a beefy PC to run, even at 320×200, the resolution dog intended.
Remaster uses Kex and maybe it’s just me but the grenades bounce directly back at me from steps. DOS Quake doesn’t seem to have that problem.
watchfulParticipantIMO “Retro City Rampage” deserves its own month and episode. I’d like to try it.
Others which are smaller could be lumped together in one month and episode. It may help to consolidate several vintage DOS games which are smaller and simpler, such as High Octane.
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watchfulParticipantWelcome from a quarter Swede! (Albeit born in the US.)
If you haven’t already feel free to put in official suggestions in this subforum. I haven’t heard of the Ishar games before, though the graphics look solid for a dungeon crawler.
watchfulParticipant+1 for UMBcast, his @UMBshow Twitter is still active for the curious
DOS Nostalgia also has a podcast, though the YouTube channel is a bit more active.
Lazy Game Reviews on YouTube also has this DOS games playlist. Lately though he tends more toward old PC hardware.
If I might add, my own rarely updated podcast often features DOS games in addition to poor quality audio and an overtired narrator: Let’s Play by Play.
EDIT: Looks like AntennaPod can almost accept YouTube playlist feeds. It recognizes the posts but not as containing media :(. Appears there are some other converters that can adapt them, for the curious.
watchfulParticipantThanks for sharing the link. TGOD looks like another nice community/DB/review site. Bookmarked!
watchfulParticipantHe’s also got this Patreon, though I’m not a fan of recurring donations for a single-player game.
Anyway, Scott’s effort looks more like something between a proper port and a remaster as all the art assets and much of the mechanics look unchanged. Graphic effects are being added, the art may be AI upscaled/filtered, frame-rate is getting a nice boost from 24 to 60 fps, and he’s planning on launching on consoles too. Nothing to shake a stick at, still, I’m hoping for at least a vertical/tate mode and clearer campaign progression.
The 2010/2015 editions on GOG and Steam look like very basic ports with an only upscaling filter.
watchfulParticipantWhile I’d like to play on OG hardware the noise from old HDDs, fans, and CRT whine is too much. Space is also a concern. Another concern is power draw and sustainability. Old hardware is wearing out with time and getting more expensive as the collective nostalgia ramps up.
I’m seriously considering a hybrid retro-modern machine though, as LGR appears to do sometimes, with an OG chassis and parts except for the disk and monitor. Then install a modern SDcard adapter and low-latency LCD monitor.
Or possibly an FPGA or SOC system that runs ‘natively’ yet without a lot of downsides of the originals.
watchfulParticipantLet’s not forget the joys of IRQs, config.sys, and autoexec.bat! Some of us had to resort to boot disks/menus to get games from Origin Systems to work. Their manuals included enough for me to learn some basic BAT file programming.
watchfulParticipantIf it’s not too late I could share some experiences from throughout the 90s. Including a bit of modding in DOS.
watchfulParticipantGuess it didn’t happen in 2021 :(. I shall wait patiently … or resort to some client-side workarounds.
If you need some help I have done a lot of web dev for my day jobs. I’d also recommend Simple Machines if you need a reasonably scalable forum–and don’t mind PHP. Discourse is also nice though looks a bit heavy and maybe sometimes too game-ified.
watchfulParticipantSorry I did not see this sooner. Based on my research it’s hard to run over modern Internet. There are a few projects promising it though they all look a bit sketch.
Fingers crossed the stalled remaster will come out before the heat death of the universe.
watchfulParticipantFunny enough I also played “The Terminator” (1990) too, having bought it expecting much greatness. Yet was disappointed at how crude and difficult it was, though I was also even younger than when I first played Future Shock.
I’d recommend doing most of the Terminator games separately though as they vary quite a bit. Maybe Future Shock and Skynet could go together since the engines are so similar and they are too long.
watchfulParticipantFrom what I recall back in the day I think ADG is right that it came out when everyone wanted cool graphics. And this game looked good even on modest hardware. Never got very far in the game back in the day, though I’ll try again. Maybe mouse or joystick controls will help.
Since I don’t see mid-mission saves I plan to use DOSBox-X and its save state feature (F11+S and F11+L). Seems to work well enough with my CD version from the thrift store.
watchfulParticipantSo it would seem there is no tate/vertical mode, and even the GOG port’s higher resolution doesn’t show any more screen space. Unless I’m missing something.
Apparently the original creator also has a Patreon, though again I don’t see mention of vertical mode.
If anyone knows more please help. This game is hard.
watchfulParticipantThere is also this reverse-engineered source port, if you happen to have the v1.2 version of the game for DOS.
EDIT: I got this port compiled for Windows. In case anyone else wants try it see the attached build archive. It can work with the v1.2 shareware or full release. See the project page for how to configure it.
Attachments:
watchfulParticipantI’ve been following for a while but not holding my breath. Seems like it’s been close to release for years. Some of their later blog / Twitter entries mention save-game trouble, though I wonder if it may actually be a lack of time devoted to the project.
Considering the legacy user base and guaranteed press coverage it could be there hasn’t been much pressure to release it sooner. Then again it’s not clear how much time they’re able or willing to devote to it either.
Anyway, fingers crossed for 2022!
watchfulParticipantSave often, increase speed (in later games), learn keyboard shortcuts or clicks to get through repeated plays faster, then if sleeping on a puzzle doesn’t help try a hint system like UMS.
I’m not a fan of the “save scum” term since it seems so negative for a perfectly reasonable technique. Some people watch movies only at home so they can pause, rewind, and jump to wherever they want. So no shame in doing similar things with the games we play.
EDIT: Forgot to mention save states like with DOSBox-X that can allow quick save and load for DOS games that limit saving and loading or lack it entirely.
watchfulParticipantBack in the day I bounced off the EGA graphics then later the VGA version’s opening with a timer and random encounters. Though retried the VGA edition with the club this month and finished it quite quickly.
One thing that helped me enjoy it much more this time was embracing the save-often ethos. Calling it “save scumming” gives the technique a bad rap, especially for a game with so much trial and error. And frankly I no longer have any shame about using a walk-through once I’ve devoted a few tries and nights sleeping on a puzzle. At this stage of my life I don’t have the time I used to, and there are plenty of other games to enjoy as well.
All that said, the VGA version also has the magnet to help with the slot machine, speed setting to make Roger walk faster, and other quality-of-life stuff like the success tone to clarify when you’ve accomplished something significant.
watchfulParticipantHas anyone tried this fan remake of SQ2, a.k.a. the ‘deluxe’ / VGA version, by Infamous Adventures?
Despite some mixed quality graphics and audio it has a charm all its own and seems to add some touches from later games.
watchfulParticipantIt’s impressive how far they took the EGA graphics and so early on. Looks like first game was impressive for its time and second and third kept advancing it. At first I didn’t even realize this third game was EGA.
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watchfulParticipantVGA for now. EGA is both hard to look at and the text interpreters are maddening.
Does anyone know if there is any version with cloud saves?
watchfulParticipantSo apparently there is a remaster (separate from 2013 reboot) coming in 2021:
watchfulParticipantMaker of WinROTT has a “GL” version which I actually prefer to the DOS version. It’s quirky to install so try following this guide: https://www.gog.com/forum/rise_of_the_triad_series/installing_winrottgl_v170
Note that there is a newer version found here by tweaking a broken link on maker’s website. My preference is also to turn off the models this GL version provides in favor of the sprites. Feels closer to the original yet without jankiness of original controls. One other quirk with WinRottGL is it doesn’t seem to correctly load the stored settings changed in its menus, at least not with my install. So I just reapply them each time I launch.
All that said the DOS version is still functional with WASD controls and mouse turning after some tweaking of sensitivity. The lower resolution though can make it hard to see far away enemies, which often have instant hit-scan attacks.
watchfulParticipantRevisiting after decades and I forgot the little innovations: enemies rolling to dodge, playing dead, begging for their lives, breakable glass, independent gib sprites (Doom baked them all into same, single enemy sprite), level structure can move horizontally, homing weapons, 11 person multiplay, etc. And now knowing it was meant to be a Wolfenstein sequel totally explains the odd uniforms that perplexed me as a kid.
Otherwise, yeah, level design is weak, it’s too easy to kill oneself with rockets (was I *that* close to the corner?), no mouse look and no high resolution apart from janky ports, weak plot, and inconsistent art styles all drag it down.
Honestly it feels like a rushed game without any strong vision. It’s a sometimes fun romp that can’t really compete in a crowded market. But back in the day there was so little competition, we played what we could and learned to appreciate the good parts.
watchfulParticipantThanks all. Yeah, I did resort to the UMS system, which is a nice fallback when one doesn’t have a lot of friends 😉
Next time I’ll try asking here first.
watchfulParticipant“Sometimes to save the world you have to push an old lady down the stairs.”
Lots of adult humor in there. 15yo me felt a twinge of guilt when Hoagie said “that’s bitch’n”. Probably gonna wait until the kids are older to share this one.
watchfulParticipantIME diving in without any primer is very time consuming. Having young kids there isn’t time for that approach with complex games. It’s best to have a friend or brief guide to help, or just watch some expert players online while doing other things.
So far I’ve bounced hard off this game. Hoping to retry before the month is out.
watchfulParticipantTried this back in the day but the graphics were just too primitive for me back then. At the time it seemed they put more work into the intro title-screen than the game’s own graphics. Still, if others feel strongly I’d be down for trying it again.
My preference would be for the later games in the series like Terminator 2029, Rampage, Future Shock (I suggested this separately), or SkyNet.
watchfulParticipant+1 for this game.
For those who find the view too zoomed in there is also OpenJazz. It re-implements the game with high resolution support to see more of the play field. While DOS is not supported it does have ports for 3DS and Wii as well as Windows and Linux.
watchfulParticipantDecember 31, 2020 at 9:38 pm in reply to: Vardit BeHarpatka Hadasha BeAlifut HaGlisha (1996, Multimedia KID) #4029Can anyone translate the screens? I stumbled into one skiing mode, though it was difficult to control with so few FPS in DOSBox.
